I should state that I agree with you: I concluded that, given the supposed guiding role of the Vatican and their historical propensity for banning works with which they didn't agree, these activities don't show simple allowance, but actual agreement. What would you say to people who disagree with your conclusions?

D. Kertzer: When evidence of anti-Semitism in the Church is found, one of the most common defenses offered is that the anti-Semitism did not reflect Vatican policy and certainly not the attitudes of the popes, who are portrayed as defenders of the Jews from their persecutors. That is why I did all I could in the research for this book to get as close to the popes themselves as possible.

The Vatican daily newspaper, L'Osservatore romano, and the biweekly La Civiltà cattolica, whose proofs had to be read and approved by the Secretary of State of the Vatican before publication, were filled with the most vicious sort of anti-Semitism. That the popes approved all this seems to me beyond question, except perhaps for those limited times when popes were practically on their deathbeds, in which case the Vatican Secretary of State would have had full control.

R. Wilde: Clearly, we cannot discuss every piece of evidence you use, but if I might ask about one. On pages 215 to 218 you talk about the Vatican's written response to Henri Desportes, which Cardinal Rampolla claimed was a form letter noting the arrival of a book by Desportes. You show that the text of this letter included a benediction from the Pope, which you interpret as a sign of approval for the book's content. However, you also include text from a later letter sent in response to the delivery of another book by Desportes, which reads rather similarly; on both occasions Desportes asked for some form of blessing.

These letters could also be interpreted as a form response, with the benediction as an automatic addition to the reply, prompted by Desportes request. Could you tell us the reasoning behind your conclusions here, and explain a couple of the crucial details, such as, how frequently Papal benedictions were issued?

D. Kertzer: It is true that papal blessings were commonly sent to those who sent messages or gifts to the pope expressing their devotion to the Holy See. It is also true that authors who sent books in this way could receive such letters without the Pope ever reading a page of their books. But in the cases in question the letters containing the papal blessings were sent by the Secretary of State himself, with an added personal note thanking Desportes for sending an extra copy of the book for him. Moreover, there is no question but that the Secretary of State knew exactly what the books represented, for he certainly read the cover letter as well as saw the title of the books.

Whether or not the Pope actually saw the books, the Secretary of State certainly expressed his approval for the work of the Catholic crusader who was devoting his life to spreading the ritual murder charge against the Jews. What seems to me more amazing is that after denying to the archbishop of Westminster that he knew anything about the nature of the author or his book, the Secretary of State would a few months later receive a new letter from Desportes, with the offering of his new book, Killed by the Jews, and again send him a letter of papal appreciation.

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For Citation And Footnotes
Title: Unholy War: An Interview with David Kertzer
Author: Robert Wilde
Date: 2002